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 The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 9:50 AM |
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TomVizzini
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Ok folks we are coming down to the final stretch of the 2 week challenge and it seems that the real challenge is learning to deal with the word ...NO!
We have several people here that hear that word and suddenly they are inadequate, stupid and unattractive.
What a powerful words! It transforms people instantaneously. It sucks the life right out of them like a vampire. It can make a 200 pound man crumble into a puddle before your eyes.
You guys have more ways of making yourself feel like crap than I can keep up with.
Then you walk out into the world with this filter of crap and wonder why life is not going your way.
Here is why......most of you EXPECT 'no' but you never have a plan for 'no'.
So here is today's drill. Think of a situation where you expect someone to say no. Then imagine that leaving and running away is not an option because you already have that plan.
I want you to think of what you plan would be after getting a no.
Write it out. Think of three alternative plans.
There it is. Short and sweet. Go do it.
Tom
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 10:38 AM |
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caputmartem
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Well I really wouldn't know what I could do if I were told that I wasn't the right person for the job. I can't think of anything to convince the interviewer that I was the right guy for the job or did you want something different? Retreating and finding another job would seem to only option to me.
Etienne
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 10:41 AM |
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TomVizzini
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Quote:
Well I really wouldn't know what I could do if I were told that I wasn't the right person for the job. I can't think of anything to convince the interviewer that I was the right guy for the job or did you want something different? Retreating and finding another job would seem to only option to me.
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Ok good example. Your first response is a fight or flight response rather than a creative response. Your only choices are to either convince the person that you are the person for the job or to leave.
Let me offer this. NOTHING is life that is worthwhile is going to be achieved by giving up.
With that said. You re not following instructions. Leaving is not an option. So make a plan.
Tom
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 11:06 AM |
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caputmartem
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1. Fire good anchor or confusion anchor, and ask him or her if she is sure and then ask what qualities he or she is looking for
2. Ask if they other functions available that I would qualified for /interested in
3. If I am dealing with HR I could try stepping over the persons head and talking with a boss or department head directly and try to manipulate them.
4. Cry like a little girl…
PS Tom could you change the size post screen? I can only see half of what I am typing.
Etienne
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 11:41 AM |
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jwoodin2
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Quote:
Think of a situation where you expect someone to say no....
....think of what you plan would be after getting a no. (Do 3)
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Plan 1
1. Check level of rapport, and improve if possible
2. Break their state to get them off of "No"
3. Elicit a "Yes" state (in context)
4. Probe for what elements make up that "Yes"
5 Anchor them
6. Fire anchor(s) and link them to me
Plan 2
1. Check rapport level
2. Probe their "No" state to find out what drives it
3. Find out what would have to happen before "Yes"
4. Reframe the situation
Plan 3
1. Check rapport level
2. Adjust the "Position of influence" and try again
3. Calibrate and repeat
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 12:09 PM |
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reler6
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Quote:
So here is today's drill. Think of a situation where you expect someone to say no. |
Expect a no ? I'd like to think that I'm always hopeful of a "yes", but am not surprised by a "no". Maybe that's the same thing. In which case ...
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I want you to think of what you plan would be after getting a no. |
1. Look doubtful and say "are you sure ?"
2. Ask "What would have to happen for you to say Yes ?"
3. Say, "OK, just let me know when you change your mind".
Sorry if these sound kind of flip and trite, They're not really meant to be.
The other "plan" would be to find another solution to the problem.
Roger
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 12:13 PM |
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reler6
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Quote:
PS Tom could you change the size post screen? I can only see half of what I am typing. |
Tom, I'm with Etienne on this one - the framing on this page is all over the shop. I think it's because you seem to have added the "Site members/Who's Online/Search/Upcoming Events" stuff to the left of this page, which didn't used to be here.
Or maybe it's a browser thing - I'm using Firefox though of course, I can't speak for Etienne on that.
Either way, can you put it back as it was before ? 
Thanks
Roger
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 12:14 PM |
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branimir
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Ok I will continue with the example of the girl kicking my ass ...
Btw Ive gotta tell you in the past I would get offended real bad and get hurt, but after this 2 week challange, I have made my whole life about facing pain. And as hard as it was to get over it the first 10-15 times, now I am confident that even if I feel shitty for 45 min at some point I will relax, so I dont give up.
So some of the things I would do would be,
1- Saying thanks for bashing me because I thought you look like someone cute I might wanna know. Wont do that again. And leave.
2- Why did you get so angry all of the sudden  Damn you are tougher than me
3-There is the flower shop near so I would go get some flowers and say Hey I dont wanna lose you this quick, I really want to get to know you whle looking straight in her eyes...
More than anything now I dont feel like the disaster scenario would happen , and that is cool... While I get flashes of it, I can overcome it with the knowing that after I get passed the block I am actually a great guy.
Harun
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 12:26 PM |
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rvicuna
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Well, I can think in some strategies it's not difficult, the thing is to have the guts to do them, (is this a counterexample or a fair recognition?).
Here are what can I do if I'd got that dreaded NO:
1. difusse it with humor .. Hey you got me!, you are really smart
2. Be humble and got into submissive position of power and say: well see, I'm triyng this new technique to make people feel better is called "the handshake pattern interruption" (or "gee!, I forget to take out that blank bill from my wallet, excuse me"
3. Go boss position and say: I was only checking if you are of those people who get angry when something unexpected comes they way
Some of them seem to me better than the others, but I bet I can think in some others. The trick is in the state I'm in whern doing it
PS I had to write this in notepad and then cut and paste to browser, please check the witdh of screen "Add a replay"
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Haz el bien sin mirar a quién.
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 12:27 PM |
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jwoodin2
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Quote:
Harun said (trying to get the girl):
So some of the things I would do would be,
1- Saying thanks for bashing me because I thought you look
like someone cute I might wanna know...
2- Why did you get so angry all of the sudden Damn you are
tougher than me
3-There is the flower shop near so I would go get some...
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Harun, dude.
Who ever told you that that kind of shit was attractive?
Your strategy is:
1. Act like a wimp
2. Suplicate
3. Attempt to bribe her
Really, for f*ck sakes. There's a ton of material available to
help you, go search. You can craft a much better strategy and
form a much more attractive approach.
I won't promote anyone else's products in Tom's forum, but I
can email you some links. There's a great book under $50
that will give you a whole new perspective.
You're just pushing the wrong buttons.
It doesn't have to be this way.
~John
(I am not affiliated with any dating sites or products)
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 1:05 PM |
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tommalley
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Ask can I see your superior??
ha ha
Uncover their objections for their no and persuade them I do not fit into their normal parameters. Bring them to a win win situation.
Id ask in what way could we work together to make it happen. Perhaps smaller steps, or let me show you what I can do.
Ask to be taken on as a consultant, on a results only basis.
Ask them what their goals are. Do a short term project and present them with the basis of achieving their goals and then ask again.
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Perhaps?
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 1:07 PM |
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branimir
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Quote:
Harun said (trying to get the girl):
So some of the things I would do would be,
1- Saying thanks for bashing me because I thought you look
like someone cute I might wanna know...
2- Why did you get so angry all of the sudden Damn you are
tougher than me
3-There is the flower shop near so I would go get some...
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Quote:
Harun, dude.
Who ever told you that that kind of shit was attractive?
Your strategy is:
1. Act like a wimp
2. Suplicate
3. Attempt to bribe her
Really, for f*ck sakes. There's a ton of material available to
help you, go search. You can craft a much better strategy and
form a much more attractive approach.
I won't promote anyone else's products in Tom's forum, but I
can email you some links. There's a great book under $50
that will give you a whole new perspective.
You're just pushing the wrong buttons.
It doesn't have to be this way.
~John
(I am not affiliated with any dating sites or products)
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Hey I guess this is a good time to show how I can handle, No s as compared to 2 weeks ago eh?
John,
Who the heck told you that I was trying to be attractive?
I dont know how long you have been to this seduction bullshit but I was studying it when you probably didnt have a clue about what it was.
Oh before I continue I have to say, if you are John Roberts please go fuck yourself because you are a piece of shit. But if you are some other John Ill try to be more sincere kicking your ass.
Who the fuck you think you are to think that you are in a position to blatantly criticize me, especially when you are criticizing me on the words I use which is the least important thing in a seduction... If you are still at the pickup line stage of seduction, let me teach you something... You can even go at a girl and say Hey excuse me, You are really one of the most gorgeous girls I have ever seen, I wanna fuc.... oopss get to know you. And it will move perfect... You obviously havent tried much other than what your gurus told you...
My situation if you read about it in the last thread is about imagining that the girl will get angry and shut me off loudly and real bad. And these responses are what came to my mind as a result of that, and after going through the 2 week challange. Its not a regular SARge(there goes some technical mambo jumbo for you) where I go and deliver my opening.
Anyways,
You really have alot to learn , and one of the first learnings you will have if you continue is that ALL THOSE SEDUCTION BOOKS, SEMINARS ,and gurus included are complete bullshit.
If you want a guy who can teach your so called gurus go watch the guy Josh in this movie,
http://youtube.com/watch?v=mclqdEx8IUM&feature=related
And try to figure out how he gets all the girls by saying bullshit to them.
Quote:
Your strategy is:
1. Act like a wimp
2. Suplicate
3. Attempt to bribe her
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Suplication ,eh? If you try to learn seduction from ex-geeks thats what happens, you learn a bunch of technical seduction mambo jumbo..
Harun
Hows my reaction Tom?
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 1:08 PM |
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rvicuna
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Quote:
[quote]Harun said
Who ever told you that that kind of shit was attractive?
Your strategy is:
1. Act like a wimp
2. Suplicate
3. Attempt to bribe her
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Respect Jwoodin, thats good advice generally, , anyway my two cents are that with the proper vibe he can pull those lines off
1. Even Ross have as one of his come backs the line of acting shy and said something like 1. A good positio could be sincerity
2.Ok, why questions aren't good, they reinforced states, i'd rather pace with I see you are not quite happy, (go humor with submissive) Damn you are ...
3 Well, no no, don't make a gift if there is not a reason unless better yet cut some grass from a garden, at least it'll be funny
hey, I'm having fun with this thread!
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Haz el bien sin mirar a quién.
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 1:19 PM |
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Tom396
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So here is today's drill. Think of a situation where you expect someone to say no. Then imagine that leaving and running away is not an option because you already have that plan.
When asking for the sale when the price may be too high for the customer.
I want you to think of what you plan would be after getting a no.
Write it out. Think of three alternative plans.
1. Make sure I have rapport then ask for clarification why their saying no.
2. I will let the customer know the high quality of the product.
3. I will try to negotiate a fair price to make both of us happy.
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[b]Tom396[/color][/b][color=orange]
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 1:43 PM |
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jwoodin2
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Harun...chillll.
It's just words from a random assh@le you never even met...
Why get so fired up? Man, I've never seen a forum with
so many hot buttons. Jee-zuz.
A couple of things:
- John Roberts -- not him, never heard of him
- I never said anything about seduction or pick-ups
Quote:
Who the heck told you that I was trying to
be attractive? |
My mistaken assumption! You're in her store pestering her
until she's yelling at you, then you want to buy her flowers.
What are you doing, just trying to piss her off?
Keep it up, it seems to be working.
As for criticizing you, big deal. Couldn't stand the whining.
As for criticizing me, fire away. I'm in this forum to improve,
so constructive criticism is welcomed. And flame wars are fun,
so do your worst.
Anyway, let me make a point here, and I'll keep it in the ES
context. Pretty girls often get a lot of unwanted attention
from men, agreed? They have a ton of negative anchors that
say creepy-guy, needy-guy, etc, etc.
Best advice ever on women: "Stop firing those anchors".
That's it.
As for your situation, seems to me your intent on doing that.
Why?
~John
[/b]
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 3:14 PM |
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branimir
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Hey buddy,
Again you make the assumption that I am fired up... Do I have to be fired up to call someone on their bullshit? You have made this and many other assumptions in your post, and you keep on doing it.
Yes your assumption is again mistaken. Because we are talking not about getting that girl to the point of yelling and then giving comebacks. We are talking about what phantom artificial pain we are imagining before we even say a word. AKA the worst case scenario we come up in our imagination. These never ever happened to me , but I was scared of them happening. Not now, because I realize I have many choices in responding. And thats what this thread is all aobut. Not how attractive I come off as, and not how much you know about seduction. Believe me you realy have got alot to learn.
Tell you what,unlike you I dont care about how pretty a girl is. All I care about is , Do I wanna get to know this girl.. What you talk about is the classic the seduction type of mentality. Its bullshit. The irony is you study how you can come of as attractive religiously than approach a girl and try to make her think that you are one of those confident guys who dont give a fuck about anyone. Do you not see the irony?
Quote:
Best advice ever on women: "Stop firing those anchors".
That's it.
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Sorry but thats one of the worst advice I have ever heard. How are you supposed to be genuinely yourself when you are overly concerned about not firing someones anchors.
My bottom line is Anyone who behaves this way without knowing me gets the same reaction, so if you didnt expect it well unfortunately I cant do anything about it, cuz thats me.
Anyways lets get back on topic... Sorry for the post pollution guys.
Harun
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 3:41 PM |
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reler6
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Meanwhile, back on the questions under discussion ...
Tom - maybe I'm wrong, but after what you have made us go through, and discussions that I have had outside the forum, I think I am moving towards an idea of what I should be doing.
But what I am having most difficulty with right now is the fact that I painted myself in to the corner I am now in. I fell short of my own high standards, repeatedly, knew it and did nothing to handle it. OUCH !
In other words my pain is increased by this guilt - I guess I need to let that go somehow.
Any thoughts on that ? Umm ... 3D mind perhaps ?
Roger
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 3:44 PM |
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jwoodin2
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Harun,
Weren't you posting about a real girl, in a real shop?
If not, my bad.
Either way, I don't need any advice on girls.
I've been married for many, many years.
I feel like we're going to be Best Friends Forever now.
Can you feel the love?
~J
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 4:07 PM |
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branimir
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LOL sure... I can feel the love...This is a real girl (actually at least 10 years older than me) but the situation is only the worst case scenario that my mind came up with.. That is why we are doing this challange: To pinpoint unrealistic expectations and things that get in the way. yeah?
Quote:
Either way, I don't need any advice on girls
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You know thats the reason I gave you the reply I did. Advice on girls is completely irellevant to this thread.
Hey its cool that you are married.. You can teach me about finding that special girl to marry Peace
Harun
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 6, 2007 at 9:07 PM |
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brabhobr
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Thinking about talking to a girl and she says no to me my alternative plans would be:
1- Not give importance to it. Continue the interaction and try again latter on.
2- Make the same proposition in a different way. Maybe the no was not to the proposition itself but to the way it was placed.
3- Agree at first with the no answer, pacing her to recover rapport.
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 7, 2007 at 8:15 AM |
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reler6
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Quote:
PS Tom could you change the size post screen? I can only see half of what I am typing. |
Quote:
Either way, can you put it back as it was before ? |
Thanks - seems to look better
Roger
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 7, 2007 at 10:05 AM |
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TomVizzini
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Quote:
1. Make sure I have rapport then ask for clarification why their saying no.
2. I will let the customer know the high quality of the product.
3. I will try to negotiate a fair price to make both of us happy.
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Hold on a second. Your first mistake is assuming the price is too high. Then you plan is to repeat what you should have already said. Then to lower the price?
Ok forget this plan. It is just not going to work. Give me a different plan.
Tom
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 7, 2007 at 3:26 PM |
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caputmartem
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Quote:
That is why we are doing this challange: To pinpoint unrealistic expectations and things that get in the way. yeah?
Really? I never read anything about unrealistic expectation in this drill. All I got was think of a realistic situation in which you are given a no. The example you gave isn't realistic and trust me Harun I've tried some reallly stupid shit with women and I've never had anyone become aggresive or shout at me before.
Try this one Harun you meet a girl in a store you start chatting and after a while she has to go and you ask for her number and she says no, what would be 3 ways you could deal with that?
Etienne
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| Re: The Power of 'no' |
| Posted On Dec 7, 2007 at 3:56 PM |
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reler6
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Evening all ... what Tom actually said was:
Quote:
So here is today's drill. Think of a situation where you expect someone to say no. Then imagine that leaving and running away is not an option because you already have that plan.
I want you to think of what you plan would be after getting a no. |
(My emphasis - I thought that this was a little strange at the time).
There is a subtle difference between asking and expecting a "no" and asking expecting a "yes" and then having to deal with a "no".
Roger
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| Re: The Power | | | |
