I want you to notice the focus of the questions you asked.
Most questions focused on quantity. How much pain would there be? How much pleasure would there be?
There is the trap that destroys the best laid plans.
Most people are in a mentality of living their lives by thinking of how good something will feel or how bad. The steer through life by being automatically drawn or repelled.
If there is enough pleasure involved then most people are wiling to put up with some level of pain.
When each step of a decision ends up being an examination of a cost benefit ratio where pain and pleasure are the variables, you will eventually find something that stops you.
So much time gets wasted by thinking of the ratios that you end up doing more thinking than doing.
If I told you that inside the box was 10 million dollars and you could have it but.....The moment you opened the box you would get the pain, most of you would not hesitate.
Pain and pleasure are about focus. Most pain control methods deal with shifting the focus from the pain to something else. Just yesterday I was sitting around and Kim asked what happened to my hand. I had no idea what she meant. She told me I was bleeding. I asked from where? Kim finally told my hand and twisted it around so I could see where I had been cut.
Obviously if I cut my hand off I would have noticed.
The people I meet that are successful don't focus on pain. They are people who know they can handle what comes up even if it happens to be pain.
So I have been doing some plumbing work at Kim's. We finished and I have to move the plumbing in order to put the ceilings in the way I want to. I have done plumbing but not a whole house before. So I called my brother who is a contractor. I told him I was sitting and staring at the plumbing. I hooked it all up and wanted to know what I had to do in order to make sure it didn't leak.
He just laughed at me. He said there is only one way to check...turn it on. So as he told me that I reached up and turned the valve. Guess what....No leaks! So I hung up the phone and went upstairs. I turned on the faucet and.....had reversed the lines!. The cold water was hot and the hot was cold. So I called my brother so he could laugh some more. When he was done laughing I hung up and with a bit more piping I got them hooked up correctly. So I went upstairs and turn on the sink and they were STILL switched.
How could that be! So I looked into the problem and found that I had switched the piped that are coming through the floor under the kitchen sink. So I switched those lines around, leaving the pipes backwards but switching the lines. So I then again called my brother so he could laugh at me some more.
After a few hours I noticed a leak. I looked closely at it and discover that I had never glued the joint. So at 11 PM I was still gluing pipes together. So I reluctantly called my brother one last time just so he could go to bed happy. Yes he laughed at me again. Well we bother laughed.
Before he hung up he said one last thing...." Well it could be worse, you could still be staring at it and not have anything done." still laughing as he hung up.
True story from 2 days ago
People who move ahead are the ones who have the mentality that pain is not a problem. It is just a step in the process that might happen or might not.
Some of you would stare at the box forever. Some would eventually open it. Some would walk away.
You don't have to be a super human. All you have to be is someone who can deal with it.
One response I want to address is Roberto. his third question is a complete mind trap. Here it is:
"3. Would it hurt some other people if I have it?"
This is a question that will paralyze any goal. Many people think that if they get something that they take it form someone else. In the real world that is just not true. The world is not a zero sum game where there are only so many pieces of the pie and if you take your slice that someone else will go hungry. It is a growing pie that you contribute to.
So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
Have fun
Tom
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 10:43 AM
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tommalley
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The question made me think. That its not neccesary to feel any pain, there is always another way. Pains not a big deal I just cant be bothered with it when there are so many other possibilities.
Im going off to to get a calculator and work on this fault mathematics, this make me always look for the comfortable option rather than the ideal goal.
Great question
Perhaps?
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 11:23 AM
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reler6
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So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
Hmm - I'm thinking out loud now ...
It seems to me that the natural tendency of humans is to seek satisfaction/contentment/pleasure (whatever label is appropriate according to the context) and to avoid pain/danger (unless you get off on that kind of thing !) Indeed, it seems to me that the famous “4 F's” are split between these two concepts: food and fornication (generally good things) and fight or flight (with or from generally bad things).
In my posts here, I've already mentioned the concept of deferred gratification. Some people are keen to put up with some discomfort or inconvenience in order to reap some benefit in the future.
I guess it also works the other way around ... pleasure now with the promise that you'll do the hard yards “later”. Yeah, right !
Guilty as charged I'm afraid. And in my case, I have a lot of “stuff” that makes me feel, “Why should I give up my time for some nebulous future ? Let's have some fun now !”. For example, after many years at school and college, when I finally got out in to the outside world and started earning some money, I found it very difficult after a day at work to go to my books to study for professional exams when I could be playing sports, listening to music and socialising.
I feel that the same kind of process is going on now. I mean, hell, I could even say that following the 2 week challenge is actually taking up time that I should and could be using to take me further towards my goals. But somehow, by not doing those things and reading and writing posts, it's “helping” me to achieve success. Isn't it ?
Screwed up ?
So to answer your question Tom,
Quote:
.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
... for me, nowadays I guess that in certain contexts, I am not sure how long I can defer gratification, particularly when I'm not really certain that I will actually achieve it anyway ! Does that make sense ? So the “pain” of enduring the current situation seems less than the “pain” of changing it.
Put it this way: I used to have a series of horrible office jobs. I would bitch and moan to anybody that was happy to listen to me that because it was a fairly secure, well paid job, I felt “safe”. But I wasn't happy doing it. And because so much of my identity was (still is ?) wrapped up in what I do for a living, I was desperately unhappy.
I used to ask myself: so you're safe and unhappy. Turn that around: would you rather be unsafe and happy ? Is that even possible for me ?
I guess I have never quite got to the answers ... yet ?
OK, tea-break over. I shall think about these things further.
Roger
PS – my building has a leaky pipe outside ... could you take a look ? (Maybe that will get you to come to Bristol !)
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 11:45 AM
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rvicuna
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About the pain question, it's not that much the pain as it is the ANTICIPATION of the pain. You know, bring me that shot and I take it at once, but tell me about one week in advance and I will create a moster of anticipated pain in my mind. Once it's there inside there's not defense. So, let's go balancing that off, what kind of person will dwell on the anticipated pain? or something to that effect.
Haz el bien sin mirar a quién.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 11:45 AM
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rvicuna
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Quote:
One response I want to address is Roberto. his third question is a complete mind trap. Here it is:
"3. Would it hurt some other people if I have it?"
I see, thanks on that, I'll think on it
Quote:
Before he hung up he said one last thing...." Well it could be worse, you could still be staring at it and not have anything done." still laughing as he hung up.
Funny thing is today I heard in the radio a quote from Conrad Hilton, he said something to the effect of action is the important thing in life, greatest ideas anr nothing without action. Even if you fail, is this movement wich'll get you there".
cheers,
Haz el bien sin mirar a quién.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 12:08 PM
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daveforis
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Well, I guess I have this belief that if it hurts, you're doing it wrong. Hell, I suppose the belief might be more along the lines of if it doesn't feel good, then you're doing it wrong, which makes even a boring, neutral day suck.
I suppose there's always to some degree a low level of pain hanging around-after all, I'm not particularly satisfied with my life-and if what I'm going to do doesn't actually change or alleviate that within a short time, then there doesn't seem to be a point. With that in mind, I HAVE to have a goal that makes me feel good in the end. I'm definitely on the automatic attract/repel cycle.
So, I guess my take on pain in general isn't that I'm concerned with it. I want to know if something is going to feel good enough to be worth going for.
I have to admit this is an interesting question. I've got all sorts of anger coming up. I used to be the kind of guy who'd wallow in his own misery. It took me quite a while, but I eventually figured out how utterly stupid that was, and I guess I've decided that I never want to live a life of discomfort again. Obviously that's a mind trap.
So this is interesting in a general, philosophical sense, but how EXACTLY do I apply it? Working with generalities doesn't work, after all.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 12:20 PM
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phillc
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So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
Have fun
It's not so much that pain is a big deal, it's the perception that pain *may* *be* a big deal.
I've had a few occasions recently where I had some specific work tasks to get done and I would stress myself out about how hard they would be to do.
I found ways to distract myself and avoid starting on those tasks because of the *perception* of pain that I thought would be involved.
In the end, I had to start those tasks because I'd left them to the absolute last possible moment to get them done and the perceived pain of being yelled at by someone became greater than the pain of doing the task.
The big lesson in both cases was that the task that I had spent so much time feeling worry and anxiety about turned out to actually be very simple.
Every bit of worry and pain I experienced was caused by the avoidance and "waiting to start" had turned out to be a complete waste of energy.
By deciding to get it done and taking action, the pain was eliminated and each task perceived in a matter of hours.
So, focusing on the perceived pain stopped me moving forward and made me feel bad.
If I'd kept my focus on completing the task, the rewards for doing so then I would have had each task done really fast and would have been happily moving forward.
Pain is a big deal when we focus on it and use it to determine whether or not to take action.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 12:20 PM
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phillc
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So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
Have fun
It's not so much that pain is a big deal, it's the perception that pain *may* *be* a big deal.
I've had a few occasions recently where I had some specific work tasks to get done and I would stress myself out about how hard they would be to do.
I found ways to distract myself and avoid starting on those tasks because of the *perception* of pain that I thought would be involved.
In the end, I had to start those tasks because I'd left them to the absolute last possible moment to get them done and the perceived pain of being yelled at by someone became greater than the pain of doing the task.
The big lesson in both cases was that the task that I had spent so much time feeling worry and anxiety about turned out to actually be very simple.
Every bit of worry and pain I experienced was caused by the avoidance and "waiting to start" had turned out to be a complete waste of energy.
By deciding to get it done and taking action, the pain was eliminated and each task perceived in a matter of hours.
So, focusing on the perceived pain stopped me moving forward and made me feel bad.
If I'd kept my focus on completing the task, the rewards for doing so then I would have had each task done really fast and would have been happily moving forward.
Pain is a big deal when we focus on it and use it to determine whether or not to take action.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 12:23 PM
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branimir
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Quote:
So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
Have fun
Tom
Here's the thing, when I feel the pain I feel it extremely bad. I feel it to a phobia extent. There has never been a mild pain in terms of feelings in my life. Its only hardcore fucked up feelings that make allergies pop up. Its like a painful block all over my head that makes me wanna kill myself to get rid of it. Its like a burning sensation all over my body that makes me feel like a thousand tarantulas are biting me. I dont see or hear normally when I am in that mode. Everything is a blur. That is the reason why it is such a big deal. Usually I am able to fight it off with the hope that someday in the future I will eliminate it if I keep on going. Somedays that doesnt happen and I find myself doign all sorts of useless things to run away from it.
This is what happens. But these are no excuse. I will keep on doing the 3dmind as much as I can till I get it solved.
Harun
[/quote]
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 12:24 PM
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jwoodin2
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So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
I would say there are two parts to it for me.
1) The nature of the pain, and
2) Do I have any type of skill to deal with the pain
For physical "pain" like work or effort, we all probably deal with that pretty well.
If we know what to do, a "Just Do It" or "get 'er done" attitude goes a long way.
But oh, those social pains! Things like perfectionism, what will people think, will I look stupid if I "fail", am I being nice, will anyone be offended, keeping up appearances, will this post make me look smart or stupid, etc etc.
So many Mindtraps, so little time!
Seems to me, these things get to the core of what kind of person you are. If you truly don't care about those kinds of social pressures, then you stand very far apart from the rest of humanity. I'm not there yet, but I've come a long way from where I was.
One thing I noticed is that when I stopped judging others, I began to care less and less about their judgements of me.
I would be very interested to hear the list of internal attitudes that you hold Tom. What is a good mindset that will allow someone to avoid the common traps?
Cheers,
~John
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 3:32 PM
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flushers03
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I'll have to agree with some of the others. For me, its the anticipation/imagining of the pain before any real pain shows up that is the movement killer. The defaut setting for the intensity setting of the anticipation seems to be set at a high level for me to answer your question.
What is it about pain that makes it such a big deal?
I htink it is what I would believe about myself after the pain that stops me. And the feelings that I would feel from the pain like embarrassment, disapointment, believing that I am a loser, that I am a chicken. yeah believing that I am a chicken really intensifies pain.
Also, I believe that someone who avoids pain alot is a chicken. And I have a tendency to avoid pain when I can. Whether it's physical pain, emotional pain, or anticipated pain.
I did just balance a problem belief:
I am Vulnerable
Fear
Aware
Tense
with a resource belief:
I want this
Curious
Anticipation
Desire
And since I have balanced it 2 days ago I have noticed I am less anticipating pain or discomfort than I usually do. This has me excited because I can imagine how having this problem belief balanced with shift my life. How all the little things are going to add up.
Shane
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 27, 2007 at 10:51 PM
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rusty
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The fact that it will not go away and i'll end up feeling this way all the time. I don't want to get stuck feeling pain all the time.
If i feel pain it means i'm no good and i can't do this.
Also because i don't know how to make the pain go away
not knowing what to do
Good question, these are hard questions to answer Tom and really take some thinking, thanks for the challenge.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 28, 2007 at 4:45 AM
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MichelPoque
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So let me ask a question.....what is it about pain that is such a big deal?
It's uncomfortable.
Seriously, this is a hard question for me to answer. Many times it isn't an issue at all and I've gone ahead and done what was necessary and got what I deserved. Pain or obstacles be damned. I didn't have to go through them, they really didn't exist. It was just something that happened and there was never any internal doubt about the ultimate outcome. Other times I would avoid short term pain costing me severely in long term benefit. Just for the sake of being comfortable, which sucks.
Why will I do it some times but not others? The times I go ahead no matter what I am confident in the outcome should I proceed. When I'm not, I don't. Self doubt stops me, also if the perceived gain is too slight or if it is uncertain. Upon reflecting on it though if there was no pain should I not succeed I would proceed anyway. Who cares? Just do it.
So, why is it such a big deal whether I feel pain or not?
It's not if I think going in that the pain doesn't matter. Self doubt or uncertainty within creates the state within that allows it to override my desire. That still doesn't answer the question though. I guess if it attacks my sense of self worth, then it hurts. Now, why is that a big deal? Hmmmm. It'll make me feel bad, dismal, like a failure. Which is what I'll get anyway if I don't go ahead and do the thing I want. It'll also be more sinister and pervasive. I just get a little pleasure hit before the pain.
Re: The Box
Posted On Nov 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM
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flushers03
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) Indeed, it seems to me that the famous “4 F's” are split between these two concepts: food and fornication (generally good things) and fight or flight (with or from generally bad things).
In 2 weeks, I hope to retire theses guys.
